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OML Archives-
Re: [wisdom] One - Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:20:12 -0500
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:20:12 -0500
From: pore@mainelink.net
Subject: Re: [wisdom] One
To: alanpog@ax.apc.org, orgonomy@webcom.com,
Sender: owner-orgonomy@webcom.com
Alan,
Here is an example of a header that arrived from wisdom@webcom.com which
is another mail list. If there is a way to have the oml to reply always to
orgonomy@webcom.com like they do with wisdom@webcom.com I think we would
see more use of it. Right now when someone hits a reply button it goes only to
the person known that is in the reply header. Let me know what you think.
.............................jogg
Web Page is at "http://www.mainelink.net/~pore/"
Email is at "pore@mainelink.net"
Slow mail: PORE/po box 1383/Windham,Me 04062-1383 USA
P.S. The messages from that mail list is interesting and sometimes boring
but the below one was fairly well said of religious effects on individuals not
requested when we are born but shoved on us.
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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 02:09:29 -0800
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To: wisdom@mail.webcom.com
From: David Beale <dbeale@highway1.com.au>
Subject: Re: [wisdom] One
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At 04:08 PM 30/10/95 -0800, Doug wrote:
>
>
>David, if possible, please let me know what 'being a Christian' means to
>you. I can't quite see you as what I would call a *Christian*, since the
>definition of the word means a follower of the teachings of Jesus.
"Chris·tian
(krís´chn) -adj. 1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following
the religion based on his teachings. 2. Pertaining to or derived from
Jesus or his teachings. 3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Christ;
Christlike. 4. Pertaining to or characteristic of Christianity or its
adherents. 5. INFORMAL. Neighborly; decent.
-n. 1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the
religion based on his teachings. 2. One who lives according to the
teachings of Jesus. [ME Cristen < OE < Lat. Christianus < Gk. Khristianos <
Khristos, Christ.] Chris´tian·ly adv.
The American Heritage Dictionary and Electronic Thesaurus are licensed from
Houghton Mifflin Company. Copyright (c) 1986, 1987 by Houghton Mifflin
Company. All rights reserved. Based upon The American Heritage
Dictionary."
Doug, I subscribe to enough items in the list. But not to the bit after
the "or" specifically "following the religion." Not the Religeon. As for
the "teachings" I believe they are dynamic and available to anyone alive as
equal to anyone else and don't need a power-structure with penalties and
threats. The two sides alongside the "or" are getting to be mutually
exclusive........"Christian Religeon" is somewhat an oxymoron to me.
"Professing belief in Jesus as Christ" can even get into too much
wordmongering over the meaning of "Christ" for people who think only of
petty social structures. To me the word "Christ" applies to the whole of
Creation rather than its more common use ---- certainly belongs to more
than just one historic figure and even in the Xian religeons there is
belief in the "Holy Spirit"......they think they own it!
Another quote from the same CD "Bookshelf":
"general semantics
-n.(usedwithasing.orverb). pl.A doctrine proposed by Alfred Korzybski
(1879-1950) that presents a method of improving human behavior through a
more critical use of words and symbols
The American Heritage Dictionary and Electronic Thesaurus"
and
"se·man·tics
(sí-mán´tíks) -n. 1. LINGUISTICS The study or science of meaning in
language forms, esp. with regard to its historical change. 2. LOGIC The
study of relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent.
The American Heritage Dictionary"
I love that bit in the definition, about "historical change". Any Truth
can be sold and regurgitated until it's bullshit at an ever-rising price.
We've just finished killing the world (nearly --- it's going to Live) in a
unique (a long enough time for us to not know how long since some other set
of fools did the same thing) effort to prove that a god loves us and the
evidence is wealth and ownership and this insane equasion of how big a heap
of gold we can gouge out of the ground regarding one's "worth". We've just
finished worshiping ownership and had a whole gigantic religeon built
around posession and "power" and are getting into holistic thinking and
equality that treats the world with the same love as we should now be able
to learn to treat ourselves and each other with.
So we're really talking about "semantics" with regard to the word
"Christian" --- I certainly find I have to use "X" in place of a sacred
name, when talking about various social and political groups who get
power-kicks out of inventing "churchs" that they use to disempower (and
rob) people with.........yet within these organisations one can see the
parallels to life in general and human-beings in general with their shades
of grey. In our own way we probably all think our grey is "white" and
someone else's is "black" according to our own scales. So I can't join in
with the usual run of cults and social clubs because I tend towards
believing in a "Universal" church thing ---- Ralph put it so well: "a
Universe, not a Monoverse". Many times I've gone on about how we can have
individuality bigger when we "loose" it into being closer to "oneness".
Probably if I was born elsewhere except four miles form Perth Western
Australia, I'd be some other "religeon" other than a Christian. I might
perhaps think I'm not an Xian but look at it from the point of view of
someone who has beliefs even stronger than the average Xian ----- I
wouldn't be seen as anything except one of Them; yet the Xians would string
me up at least for believing what I believe.
I was born in a place where everyone lived within about 1/2 mile of a
railway track and everyone went to church on Sundays. Catholics were evil
because they went on too much about "Hell" and surely god is kinder than to
design us for infinite torture for an infinite amount of time. The
non-catholics of a different sect were preaching the same shit about
infinite torture ---- perhaps they are secretly pushing Hitler as a viable
alternative at least the Nazis were by comparison angels straight from
heaven compared with their "god". "The Methodists were not of the true
religeon" anyway "only the Anglicans were real Xians". There were one or
two other churches that were far down in the pecking order. And we all sang
...d Save the King/Queen and prayed earnestly for our masters' wellfare
while sending butter to England to be sold cheaper than we could buy it and
while borrowing money at high interest rates (from the English) to grow
wool to send to England for processing (we weren't allowed to process
wool)......and when I found out countless anomolies like these about all I
could look forward to was unpleasantness (not from parents but from about
everything else) for being such a troublesome little shit for questioning
the authority of g-d's word.......so I ended up with lots of disparity
about the beautiful people I met at Church and took ages to work out that
there are plenty who don't go to church because after years of brainwashing
it takes time first for a kid to work out that (a) people who aren't rich
aren't poor because g... doesn't love them (b) people who aren't Xians or
don't go to church aren't Evil...then the same kids have to work out
alternatives to the brainwashing only to find that everywhere there are
just layers within layers of brainwashing and countless belief-systems
often just designed around the personal egos and power-systems of males
(most of whom subscribe to a person who wrote some very nice helpful notes
to friends but these notes are now called "the incarnate word of ..d" yet
the person seems to have hated women).
>
>Maybe there isn't such a church within the world of Christianity."
There is and little bits pop up whenever two or three or so gather together
in some way, to be "together" in a loving way ---- it's multi-dimensional
and it's a Universal Church and anyone can belong even those with the
disability of not being able to fit in with the majority (who in this
Born-A-Wasp's case happens to be the Xians) and there's no male in charge
and no fees no building....it's part of the Universal Now in EveryWhen and
EveryWhere.
>
>I'm curious because I've struggled with this dilemma for many years, and
>finally got to the point of just admitting that since I don't believe in
>the same things or approach life the same as most Christians I know or
>have known, then I am not a Christian."
Being a "Christian" gets some meaning back when one takes the first-in-line
definition (above) but how does one in the same word disassociate from the
"or" meanings and just apply to the Person then also get away from the
rather tiresome definitions of "Christ" .......and if we get into that I'll
also take back what I said about being a "Christian!" --- depends on what
dictionary one is using.
"I feel no need to fit
>in to the predominant religion in my country." I agree on that lots. OK
for me to choose all details of birth etc and the "ride" included being
born into a town when there was no alternative to being an Xian.
>And, since you say many of
>the same things I believe, and now call yourself a Christian, I'm slightly
>confused, like I'm missing something. (Cognitive dissonance?)"
I really would like to write about the "why" I call myself a "Christian"
very much, now; but there is a limit to disclosure of one's personal
experiences before the threat of white coats and cages becomes real ---
can't volunteer for being seen as a equivalent to a black-Jewish-lame
person in a world still run by Nazis.......they weren't inventors of
hatreds and it's only mildly below the surface of "polite" society as it
usually shows itself? I'll think more about it and write later when I've
worked out how to get it into words ---- seems simple living it but there
are no words for some aspects of the "knowing".
Cheers.
David Beale dbeale@highway1.com.au
phone +61 9 293 1512 fax +61 9 257 2383
52 Chaucer Way KALAMUNDA 6076
Western AUSTRALIA
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