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OML Archives-
Subject: Re: Cloud Busting - Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:04:49 -0500
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 22:04:49 -0500
From: pore@mainelink.net
Message-Id: <199603080238.VAA15790@mainelink.net>
Subject: Re: Cloud Busting
To: orgonomy@jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
Sender: owner-orgonomy@jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU
To OML, Chris P.; and Marko
The below I have included to demonstrate to the dangers of cloudbusting as
discussed during the below Student Discussion with Eva Reich and Bill Moise
(15FEB1975). I have extracted portions of this that appeared in full length
in Pore's first newsletter last summer that seemed appropriate to comments
recently made on OML.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~***************
Christopher Phillips --wrote the following and I thought this might be
helpful towards his request for evidence.
I would sincerely like to see some evidence that cloud-busting
experiments are dangerous to the local or global ecology and/or people.
I am not convinced that an individual researcer with a cloudbuster is
going to cause such a severe disturbance as to be a threat.
Now if we were talking about a group of people with several
hundred cloud busters, THAT would be a different matter entirely. To
the best of my knowledge this has not happened or even been proposed.
*********************~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marko--heckel@Rcs1.urz.tu-dresden.de
wrote the following.
Jogg said analogous (I hope :-) )
>to prove and learn about orgone Demeo should take the little medical-
>OR/DOR-buster and not the big and dangerous Cloudbuster.
Marko I did not write the above in those words. I said:
"Orgonomy covers all facets of science from psychology to astronomy.
Cloudbusting is only one part of it and unfortunately it seems to attract
many new people who are new to orgonomy. Cloudbusting becomes a power trip
or ego oriented mechanistic pursuit for some of those new to orgonomy.
There is so much more to orgonomy than cloudbusting. What about the
children and concern for their rights to grow up in a healthy nonabusive
(physical and emotional) environment at home. If one is so inclined to
learn and study cloudbuster operations and their effects, I suggest one
work with the miniature version called the dor buster before playing,
facilitating, or controlling the weather. If the weather is always so
unpredictable then how can one consider the cloudbuster as a way to prove
the concept works when there are too many uncontrolled variables in the
experiment. Is this real science.???????? Research and study with a
miniature scale dorbuster could have the possibilities of a controlled and
repeatable experiment and of course not effect our weather in more
unpredictable ways than it already is. And for those new to orgonomy, open
your mind and body to all of orgonomy. Wilhelm Reich largest credit to
science in my opinion is that the mind and body are one and not separate.
Yes there is more but that to me is the starting point to understanding.
""
I made no reference to DeMeo to go use the mini dorbuster. If you were
misled then I am sorry. I was referring to all cloudbuster enthusiasts,
particularly those new to it to look at orgonomy the way that I mentioned
above.
sincerely.....jogg(mar 7,1996)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Part a of a,b,c,d
Student Discussion with Eva Reich and Bill Moise (15FEB1975)
(Copyright Jamerling Ogg 1995)
This discussion took place in Hancock, Maine (1975) and begins with
cloudbusting since the students had just come in from viewing a cloudbuster
and trying an orgone accumulator at their home. The cloudbuster has since
been removed from Hancock, Maine. Since that time Bill Moise has past away.
Eva Reich is the daughter of Wilhelm Reich and practiced medicine as a
doctor and midwife and of course worked closely with her father. She has
now retired from the Orgonomy circuits and wishes to have quiet time to
herself. Bill Moise was married to Eva Reich and was an artist as well as a
worker in Orgonomy during Reich's life and had been involved with The
Wilhelm Reich Foundation. His art work is fantastic and many have
impressionistic tones.
(This discussion includes some editing and updates = * * by Eva Reich
during 1995.) (Anything in brackets ( ) is added by editor, Jamerling
Ogg who was "student a" in this discussion.)
Eva: And you can certainly draw from hurricanes and gently take the fizz
out of them at a long distance. Yes?
Student c: Can you try to stop them?
Bill: Oh yeah.
Eva: But not when they are upon you. You have to do this when they are 800
miles away and you're directing your pipes at the center. And you can feel
the charge and you can get very overcharged. You very gently keep one or
two pipes, just a few, drawing gently over a long period of time. Right?
Bill: Yeah.
Student a: Oh so you did that with hurricane Edna?
Eva: Yeah. This is not when the hurricane is already a system in your
vicinity. You are outside the system when you are doing it.
Student b: What would happen if you waited until it was upon you?
Bill: Nothing.
Eva: Well, you could also probably enhance a hurricane, I would think, if
you drew in the wrong direction.
Student a: With Edna you had a huge amount of rainfall that fell.
Bill: Yeah, that was my error.
Eva: Yeah, that was a close call back in 1954.
Student a: That was your error?
Bill: Yeah.
Student a: How so?
Bill: We had followed Dr. Reich's instructions, we had already dissipated
Edna and she headed out. I was you know feeling kind of ego stuff and so I
figured well.... And there was another kind of something brewing down in
the gulf. So I figured well, on my own I'll just draw from the west some to
increase the east to west flow and that will in itself...will go ahead and
keep this other one from coming up. So I did that without consulting with
Dr. Reich. Instead of that, what I did by drawing from the west, I just
drew in all this energy in back of a dying hurricane. So it just flooded
the whole Connecticut Valley and killed about fifty people. I got hell for
it and I should of too.
Eva: This gentle draw from a system like that with one or two pipes
grounded over a long period of time. Not all pipes open and moving it.
Right? A static....
Bill: Umm, huh. Slow kind of, right?
Student a: What did hurricane Carol at that time have to do with it? Cause
those two were almost next to each other. Carol and Edna?
Bill: I can't recall. I have a very leaky brain. (laughter)
>.......................
..................
......................
Eva: And I think the character of the operator has something to do with it.
For instance Trevor James Constable is a magician and he enhances storms.
It's really what he is doing. He is taking storm clouds that come along and
making them more powerful. If you don't DOR remove first you will get some
really violent reactions. So that's not good oranur. Like a cloudburst is
not what Dr. Reich was aiming for. He aimed for gentle increasing humidity
and drizzle rain in the desert which is a very rare phenomena in the desert
but he got it. So this worries me. Words don't teach. We have to make a
movie of somebody cloudbusting.
Student a: He (Dr. Reich) first worked on moving in the moisture...wasn't
it the moist air?
Eva: Yes, but he also removed DOR and kept at it for weeks.
Student a: You went across one of the mountain ranges over towards L. A. a
little more and then came back.... And after, you came back to help move it
along there.
Bill: No, we kept probing the whole area.
And when we first experienced a draw in New York to remove DOR there, I did
it very...not gently at all. I wanted to get it out of there and stuff like
that...you know. So it created a lot more. I mean sure it came out, but a
lot of thunderstorms, a lot of lightning, a lot of very very hard stuff.
Then, when I got clobbered enough emotionally, etc., and I realized you do
this very gently and very slowly and very softly. You know...then you get
it without a resulting catastrophe, without the downpours and everything.
It's gentle when it comes down through. Well, it's like you know all the
things in the realm of therapy that are really adjuncts of Dr. Reich's. You
know the screaming things, the pounding of muscles, and all these knocking
things. This hard hard hard approach that in the long run does more damage
than it does good. It's not a pinching noise. Eva can tell us. I'm no
therapist, I've never done any before but it's not the hard pinching of
muscles and stuff like that. It's the gentle triggering aspect. There are
certain ground rules you follow but the technique of the whole thing is as
yet for all of you. You know if you really work well, it works well.
`
Student a: What about its ability to cause tornadoes and stuff?
Bill: I would say it caused tornadoes in this sense. Yeah, if you do it
like a Trevor James or like Carlinsky...very hard and military and then
barroom! barroom!
Student a: Joel you mean?
Bill: Joel Carlinski?
Student a: Yeah?
Bill: Yes. If you're crazy about doing it or do it that way it's the same
thing. Instead of a gentle thing, you're going to break through this.
Compare it to therapy. You can get someone to go off like that, can't you,
if you go at it boom boom boom, right? That's no big trick. The thing to do
is you don't want the patient to die on you while you're saving him...you
know. And that becomes that misdirected ego trip thing there...in my mind.
Now there's another aspect which does occur...it's when you're
operating...when you're cloudbusting you're working with the whole envelope
with a ripple effect. It's not just an isolated thing. It's the whole earth
envelope in which there are rippling effects. For instance an operation
here (Maine) may trigger off an already existing DOR situation say down in
Texas or some place like that where it's a potential.... I mean they'll get
tornadoes in 2 weeks anyway. What you're doing is by the rippling effect.
Rippling effect means you draw here and you change the potential here and
that has sort of a bouncing effect because a potential change here causes a
potential change over there. It ripples along that way. So you may trigger
off say a tornado around Texas where the situation is just ripe for it
there. The assumption is a tornado potential exists because there's a
terrific DOR condition there and this is bursting through. Now, because in
all of this, I'm basically not a scientist. All I am is a cloudbuster
operator with some knowledge and experience. I'm basically an Artist. I am
not precise in the whole scientific realm but a lot of these things I think
are pretty sound.
Eva: One of the ways that you know you are bringing up DOR is that you get
a slight breeze. Right?
Bill: Oh yes.
Eva: Like stroking an animal. It feels like that. And the response, the
breeze comes back at you. So you draw more from the areas you get a slight
wind from if it's very still and stagnant. Another way you know you are
reacting is because the wind is your flow. No?
Bill: Yes
Eva: Do you begin to see it right away?
Bill: Not necessarily. No. It depends on the time of the year. Like this
time of the year when it's very cold, it's not. You can't see it as well.
If it's warm at least here you can. But see that's one thing that's needed
and what I hope will come in the future is more objective instrumentation
to measure these things. Right now a great deal of it as far as
cloudbusting goes is subjective, responding, and feeling which is valid
work. But if you can have some objective measurements going on with it, it
would be a lot better.
Student a: You could be using the objective, but you can also get kind of
mechanistic in trying to use it.
Bill: True, you can get that way.
Student a: It should be a combination of the two.
Bill: Absolutely, it should be.
END OF EXTRACTED TEXT FROM STUDENT DISCUSSION OF 1975
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